Când Einstein l-a întâlnit pe Tagore…

EINSTEIN: Do you believe in the Divine as isolated from the world?

TAGORE: Not isolated. The infinite personality of Man comprehends the Universe. There cannot be anything that cannot be subsumed by the human personality, and this proves that the Truth of the Universe is human Truth.

I have taken a scientific fact to explain this — Matter is composed of protons and electrons, with gaps between them; but matter may seem to be solid. Similarly humanity is composed of individuals, yet they have their interconnection of human relationship, which gives living unity to man’s world. The entire universe is linked up with us in a similar manner, it is a human universe. I have pursued this thought through art, literature and the religious consciousness of man.

EINSTEIN: There are two different conceptions about the nature of the universe: (1) The world as a unity dependent on humanity. (2) The world as a reality independent of the human factor.

TAGORE: When our universe is in harmony with Man, the eternal, we know it as Truth, we feel it as beauty.

EINSTEIN: This is the purely human conception of the universe.

TAGORE: There can be no other conception. This world is a human world — the scientific view of it is also that of the scientific man. There is some standard of reason and enjoyment which gives it Truth, the standard of the Eternal Man whose experiences are through our experiences.

EINSTEIN: This is a realization of the human entity.

TAGORE: Yes, one eternal entity. We have to realize it through our emotions and activities. We realized the Supreme Man who has no individual limitations through our limitations. Science is concerned with that which is not confined to individuals; it is the impersonal human world of Truths. Religion realizes these Truths and links them up with our deeper needs; our individual consciousness of Truth gains universal significance. Religion applies values to Truth, and we know this Truth as good through our own harmony with it.

EINSTEIN: Truth, then, or Beauty is not independent of Man?


EINSTEIN: If there would be no human beings any more, the Apollo of Belvedere would no longer be beautiful.


EINSTEIN: I agree with regard to this conception of Beauty, but not with regard to Truth.

TAGORE: Why not? Truth is realized through man.

EINSTEIN: I cannot prove that my conception is right, but that is my religion.

TAGORE: Beauty is in the ideal of perfect harmony which is in the Universal Being; Truth the perfect comprehension of the Universal Mind. We individuals approach it through our own mistakes and blunders, through our accumulated experiences, through our illumined consciousness — how, otherwise, can we know Truth?

EINSTEIN: I cannot prove scientifically that Truth must be conceived as a Truth that is valid independent of humanity; but I believe it firmly. I believe, for instance, that the Pythagorean theorem in geometry states something that is approximately true, independent of the existence of man. Anyway, if there is a reality independent of man, there is also a Truth relative to this reality; and in the same way the negation of the first engenders a negation of the existence of the latter.

TAGORE: Truth, which is one with the Universal Being, must essentially be human, otherwise whatever we individuals realize as true can never be called truth – at least the Truth which is described as scientific and which only can be reached through the process of logic, in other words, by an organ of thoughts which is human. According to Indian Philosophy there is Brahman, the absolute Truth, which cannot be conceived by the isolation of the individual mind or described by words but can only be realized by completely merging the individual in its infinity. But such a Truth cannot belong to Science. The nature of Truth which we are discussing is an appearance – that is to say, what appears to be true to the human mind and therefore is human, and may be called maya or illusion.

EINSTEIN: So according to your conception, which may be the Indian conception, it is not the illusion of the individual, but of humanity as a whole.

TAGORE: The species also belongs to a unity, to humanity. Therefore the entire human mind realizes Truth; the Indian or the European mind meet in a common realization.

EINSTEIN: The word species is used in German for all human beings, as a matter of fact, even the apes and the frogs would belong to it.

TAGORE: In science we go through the discipline of eliminating the personal limitations of our individual minds and thus reach that comprehension of Truth which is in the mind of the Universal Man.

EINSTEIN: The problem begins whether Truth is independent of our consciousness.

TAGORE: What we call truth lies in the rational harmony between the subjective and objective aspects of reality, both of which belong to the super-personal man.

EINSTEIN: Even in our everyday life we feel compelled to ascribe a reality independent of man to the objects we use. We do this to connect the experiences of our senses in a reasonable way. For instance, if nobody is in this house, yet that table remains where it is.

TAGORE: Yes, it remains outside the individual mind, but not the universal mind. The table which I perceive is perceptible by the same kind of consciousness which I possess.

EINSTEIN: If nobody would be in the house the table would exist all the same — but this is already illegitimate from your point of view — because we cannot explain what it means that the table is there, independently of us.

Our natural point of view in regard to the existence of truth apart from humanity cannot be explained or proved, but it is a belief which nobody can lack — no primitive beings even. We attribute to Truth a super-human objectivity; it is indispensable for us, this reality which is independent of our existence and our experience and our mind — though we cannot say what it means.

TAGORE: Science has proved that the table as a solid object is an appearance and therefore that which the human mind perceives as a table would not exist if that mind were naught. At the same time it must be admitted that the fact, that the ultimate physical reality is nothing but a multitude of separate revolving centres of electric force, also belongs to the human mind.

In the apprehension of Truth there is an eternal conflict between the universal human mind and the same mind confined in the individual. The perpetual process of reconciliation is being carried on in our science, philosophy, in our ethics. In any case, if there be any Truth absolutely unrelated to humanity then for us it is absolutely non-existing.

It is not difficult to imagine a mind to which the sequence of things happens not in space but only in time like the sequence of notes in music. For such a mind such conception of reality is akin to the musical reality in which Pythagorean geometry can have no meaning. There is the reality of paper, infinitely different from the reality of literature. For the kind of mind possessed by the moth which eats that paper literature is absolutely non-existent, yet for Man’s mind literature has a greater value of Truth than the paper itself. In a similar manner if there be some Truth which has no sensuous or rational relation to the human mind, it will ever remain as nothing so long as we remain human beings.

EINSTEIN: Then I am more religious than you are!

TAGORE: My religion is in the reconciliation of the Super-personal Man, the universal human spirit, in my own individual being(…)”

Science and the Indian Tradition: When Einstein Met Tagore is a sublime read in its entirety — highly recommended. Complement with Einstein’s letter to a little girl about science vs. religion.


Ioana și Sergiu Celibidache – istoria unei mari iubiri

Ioana-Sergiu Celibidache: “Ne certam, dar nu ne plictiseam”!

”- Stii tu cine este Ioana? l-a intrebat odata Sergiu Celibidache pe un prieten de-al sau.
– Stiu si eu?! bangui acela de teama unui raspuns gresit.
– Ioana este insasi viata!
Zeci de ani mai tarziu, dupa disparitia fizica a marelui compozitor si dirijor roman, fu randul Ioanei sa-si intrebe o prietena:
– Tu stii cine era Sergiu? Imi manca aerul! Nu voia saracul, dar mi-l manca. Eu nu mai respiram. Si cred ca am fost un fel de eroina ca i-am rezistat.
Exuberanta, frenetica in felul ei de a trai, „ o cratita mereu in clocot” cum se descria ea insasi, dar in aceeasi masura calda si apropiata, o femeie plina de har spiritual, si nu in ultimul rand , o pictorita de mare talent , supranumita „sora mai glumeata a lui Paul Klee”, Ioana Celibidache a fost timp de 45 de ani nu doar sotia lui Sergiu Celibidache, ci insasi viata lui.
S-au intalnit in Buenos Aires la Teatrul Colon unde Celibidache, in varsta de 38 de ani, se afla in turneu cu orchestra Filarmonicii din Berlin. Ioana venise in Argentina cu al doile ei sot, Nicolae Duca, „baiat de baiat”, „licentiat in drept” , cu un cap de „fanariot afurisit” doar ca sa-i arunce rutinii vietii manusa provocarii unei aventuri.
In acea seara orchestra interpreta Simfonia a IV-a a lui Brahms. Cand l-am vazut pe Sergiu Celibidache, spunea ea mai tarziu, octogenara deja, am fost ca lovita de apoplexie. Nu mai vazusem si nu mai auzisem asa ceva pana atunci. Ce a facut tanara Ioana de 26 de ani care la 4 ani era „praf” dupa baiatul spalatoresei familiei ei; la 9 ani era „lulea” dupa baiatul bancherului parintilor ei, iar la 15 ani era deja maritata? Dupa concert a mers direct in cabina lui Celibidache sa-i ceara un autograf pe programul orchestrei. A fost un „coup de foudre” pentru amandoi!
– Sergiu m-a masurat cu privirea de jos in sus, apoi s-a uitat cu privirea catifelata in ochii mei si am plecat zbuciumata …
Ajunsa acasa, Ioana, fara pic de retinere, ii declara sotului:
– Draga, l-am gasit pe barbatul vietii mele!
Si a plecat. A lasat totul si a plecat. Sotul a crezut ca e o joaca, o gluma, ca Ioana a innebunit. Spera intr-o revenire a ei dupa ce-i trece frenezia amorului. „Jamais!” a fost raspunsul Ioanei. „Je suis partie pour la vie!” Si asa a fost. Timp de 45 de ani, pana la disparitia pamanteasca a lui Sergiu Celibidache, Ioana l-a urmat pretudindeni, cu sevaletul sub brate, oriunde acesta avea concerte: Italia, Anglia, Danemarca, Suedia, Germania … Intrebata cat de greu sau cat de usor i-a fost sa traiasca atatea ani in intimitatea lui Celibidache, Ioana Celibidache raspundea senin: ”Nu stiu. Mie mi s-a parut a fi un dar de la Dumnezeu.” Despre Sergiu Celibidache s-au scris nenumarate biografii, dar „una mai proasta decat alta”, spunea Ioana Celibidache, deoarece nici una nu a reusit sa patrunda esenta clocotului existential al dirijorului.
Celibidache era altfel: un tumult, un vulcan, o furie, foarte critic, disciplinat, nu accepta mediocritatea. Un om care-si cunostea valoarea, dar care adesea se purta ca un copil. Te jucai cu el, era vesel, era amuzant. In cartea „ Sergiu altfel …” Ioana Celibidache vorbeste despre Omul Celibidache, despre felul acestuia de a fi, despre obiceiurile si comportamentul lui cu care s-a obisnuit atat de greu: sa fii prezenta la cele 5 min. de rugaciune ale dirijorului inainte de concerte, sa fii disciplinata, sa fii punctuala in orice, sa fii intotdeauna acasa cand venea de la repetitii. Cat de usor poate fi sa stai alaturi de o fiinta care traia exclusiv prin orchestra si repetii, iar tu sa fii mereu disponibila pentru el? Era acaparator, spunea Ioana Celibidache, nu puteam sa fac tot ce-mi doream.
Daca reuseam sa ies cumva de sub umbra lui, Sergiu intotdeauna ma determina sa inteleg ca e foarte important sa stau cu el. Si tot ea gasea raspunsul vindecator: ”Dar si eu eram la fel, ingrozitor de acaparatoare”. Doua firi atat de profund personalizate artistic, atat de libere in cuget au trait esenta iubirii fara a umbri calea destinului celuilalt. Dimpotriva. Sergiu, spunea Ioana Celibidache, m-a crescut. Eu eram tanara si toata teoria lui despre viata am absorbit-o ca un burete. El a fost cel care a incurajat-o sa urmeze cursuri de pictura si tot el era cel mai dur critic al tablourilor ei.
– Ce-s chestiile astea? Intreba Celibidache dupa ce privea indelung un tablou pe care sotia sa il semna simplu cu „Ioana”. Unde vrei sa ajungi? Nu vezi ca nu-i organic?
Pentru Ioana Celibidache pictura a fost cea care i-a adus totul in viata, inclusiv pe Sergiu Celibidache. Am descoperit pictura in el, spunea ea. Eu intotdeauna am mazgalit. Nu cautam. El m-a invatat sa caut. Spre sfarsitul vietii marele dirijor a carui concerte erau „adevarate liturghii simfonice” (Klaus Umbach), privea timp indelungat tablourile Ioanei in care nu erau pictate lucruri ci efecte, stari si o intreba: ”Cum faci tu sa ajungi la Dumnezeu cu pictura?”. Ioana nu-i raspundea. Nu eram demna de raspuns, spunea ea.

Si totusi Iubirea nu e de ajuns? Unora le este de ajuns.
Au existat certuri, dispute sau conflicte in familia Celibidache? Bineinteles ca au existat, spunea razand Ioana Celibidache, amintindu-si cum a plecat odata de acasa suparata ca sotul ei nu vroia in ruptul capului sa inchida gastele pe care le aveau la „casa de moara” , vila lor ce se afla la 100 km de Paris. Gastele sau eu, a fost ultimatumul Ioanei. Celibidache a ales gastele, iar sotia si-a facut bagajele si a plecat … pentru cateva zile cand dirijorul a cedat in defavoarea gastelor. „Ne certam, dar nu ne plictiseam!” pare a fi secretul fericirii familiei Celibidache. Sa inveti sa razi cu „adversarul”, nuanta mai tarziu Ioana. Sa razi chiar daca nu ai de ce, altfel , te plictisesti de te ia dracu! Asa au ras 45 de ani!
– Barbatul meu s-a prapadit asa, dintr-o data. Dupa moartea dirijorului in anul 1996 Ioana Celibidache a intrat „intr-un tunel al durerii”. A incetat sa picteze, iar cei 5 caini Saint-Bernard pe care dirijorul ii ingrijea personal, au refuzat mancarea pierind de foame. Viata isi pierduse sensul. Salvarea a venit tot de la Celibidache: Ioana a inceput sa scrie despre el, astfel stiindu-l aproape, veghind asupra ei. Sergiu e aici, spunea ea absolut convinsa. E cu mine. Nu e mort. E transparent.
Viata este un dar ce ni se retrage la un moment dat. Ea nu dainuie si nu ar trebui sa avem aceasta pretentie la dainuire” , spunea la apusul vietii (2012) Ioana Celibidache.

Sa nu uitam, insa, sa radem asa cum au facut-o Ioana si Sergiu Celibidache. Si au fost fericiti ca nimeni altii in aceasta lume.